I built a new Internet

Ayo Good people

I built a new Internet that is impervious to everything that plagues our current networks.

100% P2P, EE2E everything, self-hosted, etc. You can read the hype on the project repository (WIP):


I’m not quite done wrapping everything up yet, but yesterday I saw the Web Environment Integrity document that Google dropped and said fuck it, it’s time to get this shit rolling. It’s time for Big Tech to die, and I’m ready to do my part.

I’ve built a powerful weapon, but it takes a lot of hands to wield it, that’s why I’m here. I can’t do this shit alone.

The plan is simple:

  1. Create versions of popular Big Tech services/products on decentralized p2p networks that require no infrastructure and make them available for free, without any ads, tracking, or any creepy bullshit.
  2. Popularize them.
  3. Watch the tech companies struggle to compete with an entity that offers superior service and requires nothing to operate.

I’ve already built out the majority of an app that’s turning out to be something between a Discord and Skype clone, and I’m going to build a full on social network next. I’m planning on doing a P2P search engine and live-streaming projects in the near future. I’ve realized that we really don’t need centralized infrastructure for a lot of application types as I’ve been working on this project.

If you’re a web developer, or know one, let them know - I’m gearing up for war and I could use some help.

If you’re not, I’ll need help getting the word out soon, and I could also use some feedback, suggestions for next projects too.

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The way you describe it it seems quite ambitious and pretentious. Well, we’ll wait and see then.

I just had a look at your website :


And I have to admit I feel like I’m reading a spam email about how to enlarge my pnis or this kind of bullsht. No offense… it’s just my constructive feedback on how I feel after having experienced, as a potential customer, the power of your marketing.

I wasted my time scrolling down on your website and seriously I wonder what’s going on here :
« The One True manifestation of the most powerful buzzwords: Decentralized, Serverless, Peer-to-Peer, Actually Cool» or what about the : «Purify ur digital self with the cleansing fire of Web4Twanz» and «Web 420.0 - 84x more legit than lesser webs !» :nauseated_face:
Seriously… and then you mention the «Embedded remote crystal synchronizer activatable upon installation!» so what ? You really mean that when dumb enough people will install your Decent thing on their computer it will activate some sort of magical crystals inside which will be magical and they will feel so much protected on the «web 420.0 84xfaster than lesser webs» thanks to the magical crystal ?

I mean… c’mon guys… even the copyright of the website is «UR MOM 2023» what more do you need to call this post a clear spam ?


Oh, thanks guys. I thought it was just me :laughing:

Question: What’s the purpose of this?

I feel like there are already solid alternatives to Big Tech products:

Proton Mail/Tutanota
Brave/Tor Browser

I like your vision to popularize these services. How do you plant o achieve this? I feel like acquiring more funding for meaningful FOSS projects is also a goal worth achieving. If you want to spend your time contributing such features to already existing apps (Proton Mail, Tutanota, etc.) and make them support greater features.

That’s just my opinion. But if this is something you’re passionate about, then who am I to be talking?

Good services, built on top of an antiquated and non-private communication method (email)

Like most other browsers that are not Firefox or Safari, Brave is a derivative of and not independent from Google’s Chromium (the base of Google Chrome). Its a good browser, but it doesn’t solve the problem of being vulnerable to Google’s decisions and shenanigans upstream, or at the internet standards level.

Is a great service

These are great projects, but they are not alternatives to anything. They are frontends for youtube, but it is still Youtube you are using and dependent on.

What Google shenanigans, what exactly is it you think Google can do with Chromium?

@anon48036119 Thanks for kicking off the discussion.

I don’t see the point of it, you can just use alternative services like PeerTube if you don’t like YouTube

Presently, the emphasis is on simpler P2P applications that don’t require distributed computing or storage, something like a replacement for Facebook or another social network, or any of the popular messaging services that exist right now. For these types of applications, all the associated application data can easily be managed client-side in the browser, for example DeCent-Messenger uses IndexedDB. There are several other Javascript APIs that could be used for this purpose as well, though IndexedDB is the best option for anything but the most simple use cases.

The described setup gives the obvious immediate benefit of putting the user in complete control of any data that the application needs in order to function. Under the Web420 architecture, Decentralized Web Apps (DWAs) communicate with each other via P2P WebRTC channels, and could share the data stored client-side with other connected users. For example, when the exchanged data is received from peers, it is added to the UI as part of a Feed for something like a Facebook or Twitter type app. Depending on a DWAs design choices, this data may be cached in the data store for displaying later, or just shown and held in memory while the tab is open, that’s up to the developers.

So, already, by using apps built on this tech, we have gained complete control of user data - there is no centralized data store, it’s not necessary.

That’s just the beginning of the benefits, here’s another:

The foundation and primary benefit of the DCNT protocol is that it removes the need for third-party signaling when connecting users. Sure, lots of apps out there today can facilitate a P2P WebRTC connection these days. But none of them can do it without a third party, often themselves. Signal, Telegram, Whatsapp, Discord, FB Messenger, blah blah blah. They all do the same shit. Everything is routed through their systems before a true P2P connection is born, if even at all. From a privacy perspective, the only difference between all of those services is how much data is collected in the process.

Why even give them the opportunity to handle your data at all? Fuck that noise.

The DCNT protocol removes the need for third parties when connecting users. This is revolutionary in this case, because it also “just works” with the rest of the Internet.

Now, regarding your specific example of PeerTube, which by the way I think is a really cool project.

First I will say, that the Web420 “ecosystem” or whatever, is not quite ready for distributed systems yet, either for storage of computing. This is not to say that it’s not possible, it is definitely possible - I simply haven’t had time to start building frameworks to accomplish these types of goals yet, meaning that anyone who wants to build this type of architecture is going to have to do it from nothing. Web apps are more than capable of this type of application, you can check out the WebTorrent project to get an idea of what’s possible, for example: GitHub - webtorrent/webtorrent: ⚡️ Streaming torrent client for the web. Peer5 (acquired by M$) also proved that this architecture is viable, though they did it in a commercial/paid service.

So that is possible and is coming in time, but as I mentioned above, for now my emphasis is on simpler more direct P2P applications like social networking, because I think I will be able to have more of an impact there, sooner.

Also, when I mentioned live streaming in my previous post, I do not have a Youtube replacement in mind so much, as something that deals with more transient media, like Twitch. That will be easier to tackle earlier on, and without dealing with the challenge of long-term storage.

E2EE everything > Im not 100% sure what you mean with that but https already does that


self-hosted > thats how the internet works, everything is “self-hosted” by someone and everyone can host whatever they want

Technically you are correct, but it’s a bit disingenuous to say you’re “self-hosted” when using someone else’s hosted application, yes?

DeCent-Core puts the server on your device and makes it extremely easy to use. It’s self-hosted by the most obvious, direct definition.

Create versions of popular Big Tech services/products on decentralized p2p networks > PeerTube, Mastodon, Lemmy, … pure p2p doesn’t work, a lot of people still have a data cap so why would they waste it to also upload everything they consume and on mobile p2p is just a nightmare for the battery

The ideas that all P2P must be battery-intensive is a myth. Media, depends. Small amounts of data, with the connection managed by the browser? Naw. The whole stack works great on a budget Android phone so far. I can’t even tell it’s running outside of the persistent notification.

that require no infrastructure > where is everything stored? its not free and especially if you wanna store video its a lot of storage you need > torrents show the problem if you think that everything can just be stored by peers, old or unpopular things just die so they creator always needs to store everything if they want it to stay forever which means they need infrastructure

I think I addressed most of this question above. Long-term storage would have to be handled using the Javascript File System Access API, IndexedDB would not cut it for this type of system, and also can be vacated by the browser making it unreliable for long-term storage.

As I’ve mentioned already, this type of system is coming later.

and make them available for free, without any ads, tracking, or any creepy bullshit > hosting is not free and people wanna make money somehow, you should ask yourself why ads, tracking, … is even a thing

Haha YESH my dude! And here we arrive at the greatest point of all: on Web420 hosting is free!

DWAs can be installed locally and served up (locally) by the DCNT server. Hosting is free.

So there is no need for ads, tracking, no longer justification for any of those fuckeries.

Now a 13-year old dev making a React app in their bedroom can compete with Facebook.

Is it making more sense now?

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Lighten up, have some fun.

Anyway, mission accomplished. Though I didn’t think I’d have to bluntly state that the landing page is a satirical art installation or something hahah. Should I make it even more batshit to get that across?

I’m not here to sell you shit my dude, I’m here offering digital sellvation :heart:

What are you making fun of with this design of your site and it’s general message (given that it’s all actually satirical and you’re not serious)? Of hyped pretentious and ambitious projects that promise you fabulous profits upon investing or to change the world, claiming that all existing tech is utterly obsolete and your project is the one to save the world?

Well, if this is your object to mock, how does this help you to promote your project? I’m failing to see the point.

«lmfao» … «bruh»… «dude» … I feel like I’m on Reddit :face_vomiting:
First I’m not your «bruh», second I’m not your «dude», third seeing that you write the exact same way you think and talk it’s now totally clear to me that the way things are written on your website is not a satirical art installation but the real reality of the culmination of your brain working at full power. You came here to ask us for feedback. I gave you my humble feedback. Now if you think calling me names like we are in the street and you know me is acceptable let me tell you it’s not : you don’t know me and you’ve wasted all the trust you had with me to begin with at «bruh».
I won’t say it was a nice experience interacting with you here, I definitely say you wasted my time today. Now if you excuse me I have to check if we can block/hide comment from a user here.

Well… lots of things. While both Chromium and Blink are technically open source projects, they are effectively controlled, funded, and developed mostly by Google (Google accounts for a little over 90% of contributions to Chromium).

Why this matters:

  1. Downstream projects inherent all of Google’s development decisions (for Chromium/Blink), they can try to undue the ones they don’t like or mitigate them, but this means they are always fighting their upstream, which over time becomes more harder and harder to sustain, and some things are too fundamental, or too big to even attempt to undue.
  2. If everyone is using Chromium derivatives, and Chromium is largely controlled by Google, that gives google unprecedented power in not just browser development, but the development of web standards overall.

There are countless subtle and not subtle ways Google can and does use Chromium (the browser) and Blink (the browser engine) to serve their goals. One of the most talked about examples would be the introduction of MV3 which will handicap adblockers. If you’ve been following the tech news lately you are probably aware that this is just one of a few different ways that Google seems to be ratcheting up its attempts to undermine ad & tracker blocking.

If you want an example of how Chromium could be developed in such a way that it severely undermines 3rd party derivatives, Android is the example. Android is “open source” technically and legally, but because the open source base is mostly controlled by Google, its been so fundamentally designed around non-free Google apps and services that degoogled custom roms without Google services are not competitive and custom ROM makers must develop work arounds which are at best half-measures and half-successes. The experience of Android sans google is a big downgrade for most users because core functions of the operating system have been intentionally left out of AOSP to effectively guarantee the need for Google services. Even the dialer and sms app are soon to be discontinued. This guarantees that custom ROMs are never on an equal playing field and will only be considered by the most privacy conscious and adventurous among us. The power possessed by Google to shape entire playing field is subtle but powerful, and what happened with Android can happen to Chromium.

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Great post.

The one thing I’d add is the moves Google is making with the Web Environment Integrity proposal:

It’s basically a declaration of war. It’s what I was referring to in the first post. Blatantly trying to cripple the open web to secure their revenue streams. The Issues people opened are entertaining for a minute.

The headline going around the web is “Google is trying to DRM the web”, Louis Rossman just dropped a video about it too.

I’m sure this will find it’s way into Chromium at some point, like the media DRM shit.

You don’t need to use MV3, the Chromium based browsers just want to remain compatible with Chrome extensions. Vanadium, which is for Chromium what Liberwolf is for Firefox, doesn’t use extensions alt all.

You can use Chromium without using extensions, you can keep using V2, or you can make your own system for extensions, you are not forced to use V3. Most want their browser to be compatible with Chrome extensions, this is a design choice it’s not because it’s not open source.

Brave browser allows you to both use MV3 and block ads, they just added ad block directly to the browser and don’t need to use extensions. They could do this, just like Vanadium could remove extensions, because it is open source.

It’s the same with Android, Graphene OS and LineageOS both ship without Google services, and you don’t need to install them if you don’t want to use Google Play.

Both are fully open source, and you can remove the Google elements if you want to do so.

the website makes it look like satire, but i looked around and it seems like he’s actually spending time on it.

i think the idea is people connecting to eachother over RTC(?). am i getting this right? maybe the website needs to explain DCNT better

also, after you open source this, maybe use github actions to build DeCent-Core. if you are going to use github, their automation can help you publish builds on each release. much better than a random exe on filebin.