@anon48036119 Thanks for kicking off the discussion.
I don’t see the point of it, you can just use alternative services like PeerTube if you don’t like YouTube
Presently, the emphasis is on simpler P2P applications that don’t require distributed computing or storage, something like a replacement for Facebook or another social network, or any of the popular messaging services that exist right now. For these types of applications, all the associated application data can easily be managed client-side in the browser, for example DeCent-Messenger uses IndexedDB. There are several other Javascript APIs that could be used for this purpose as well, though IndexedDB is the best option for anything but the most simple use cases.
The described setup gives the obvious immediate benefit of putting the user in complete control of any data that the application needs in order to function. Under the Web420 architecture, Decentralized Web Apps (DWAs) communicate with each other via P2P WebRTC channels, and could share the data stored client-side with other connected users. For example, when the exchanged data is received from peers, it is added to the UI as part of a Feed for something like a Facebook or Twitter type app. Depending on a DWAs design choices, this data may be cached in the data store for displaying later, or just shown and held in memory while the tab is open, that’s up to the developers.
So, already, by using apps built on this tech, we have gained complete control of user data - there is no centralized data store, it’s not necessary.
That’s just the beginning of the benefits, here’s another:
The foundation and primary benefit of the DCNT protocol is that it removes the need for third-party signaling when connecting users. Sure, lots of apps out there today can facilitate a P2P WebRTC connection these days. But none of them can do it without a third party, often themselves. Signal, Telegram, Whatsapp, Discord, FB Messenger, blah blah blah. They all do the same shit. Everything is routed through their systems before a true P2P connection is born, if even at all. From a privacy perspective, the only difference between all of those services is how much data is collected in the process.
Why even give them the opportunity to handle your data at all? Fuck that noise.
The DCNT protocol removes the need for third parties when connecting users. This is revolutionary in this case, because it also “just works” with the rest of the Internet.
Now, regarding your specific example of PeerTube, which by the way I think is a really cool project.
First I will say, that the Web420 “ecosystem” or whatever, is not quite ready for distributed systems yet, either for storage of computing. This is not to say that it’s not possible, it is definitely possible - I simply haven’t had time to start building frameworks to accomplish these types of goals yet, meaning that anyone who wants to build this type of architecture is going to have to do it from nothing. Web apps are more than capable of this type of application, you can check out the WebTorrent project to get an idea of what’s possible, for example: GitHub - webtorrent/webtorrent: ⚡️ Streaming torrent client for the web. Peer5 (acquired by M$) also proved that this architecture is viable, though they did it in a commercial/paid service.
So that is possible and is coming in time, but as I mentioned above, for now my emphasis is on simpler more direct P2P applications like social networking, because I think I will be able to have more of an impact there, sooner.
Also, when I mentioned live streaming in my previous post, I do not have a Youtube replacement in mind so much, as something that deals with more transient media, like Twitch. That will be easier to tackle earlier on, and without dealing with the challenge of long-term storage.
E2EE everything > Im not 100% sure what you mean with that but https already does that
Exactly
self-hosted > thats how the internet works, everything is “self-hosted” by someone and everyone can host whatever they want
Technically you are correct, but it’s a bit disingenuous to say you’re “self-hosted” when using someone else’s hosted application, yes?
DeCent-Core puts the server on your device and makes it extremely easy to use. It’s self-hosted by the most obvious, direct definition.
Create versions of popular Big Tech services/products on decentralized p2p networks > PeerTube, Mastodon, Lemmy, … pure p2p doesn’t work, a lot of people still have a data cap so why would they waste it to also upload everything they consume and on mobile p2p is just a nightmare for the battery
The ideas that all P2P must be battery-intensive is a myth. Media, depends. Small amounts of data, with the connection managed by the browser? Naw. The whole stack works great on a budget Android phone so far. I can’t even tell it’s running outside of the persistent notification.
that require no infrastructure > where is everything stored? its not free and especially if you wanna store video its a lot of storage you need > torrents show the problem if you think that everything can just be stored by peers, old or unpopular things just die so they creator always needs to store everything if they want it to stay forever which means they need infrastructure
I think I addressed most of this question above. Long-term storage would have to be handled using the Javascript File System Access API, IndexedDB would not cut it for this type of system, and also can be vacated by the browser making it unreliable for long-term storage.
As I’ve mentioned already, this type of system is coming later.
and make them available for free, without any ads, tracking, or any creepy bullshit > hosting is not free and people wanna make money somehow, you should ask yourself why ads, tracking, … is even a thing
Haha YESH my dude! And here we arrive at the greatest point of all: on Web420 hosting is free!
DWAs can be installed locally and served up (locally) by the DCNT server. Hosting is free.
So there is no need for ads, tracking, no longer justification for any of those fuckeries.
Now a 13-year old dev making a React app in their bedroom can compete with Facebook.
Is it making more sense now?
