How do I stop my apartment building from adopting smart meters?

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My city is currently rolling out smart water and electricity meters, and my apartment building is considering the switch. For now, it’s not mandatory, but the decision is not made on an individual basis.

All the building residents have to vote on it. Either everyone will get one, or none of us will, and I fear that I will not be able to persuade my fellow neighbors on this issue.

Does anybody have any experience with smart meter rollouts in your town and pushing against them?

I’ve done a little bit of research, and so far I have seen various privacy advocates in the US, UK, and Australia complain about it. I’ve seen regular people from those countries do the same thing.

In the UK, it was first announced as optional, but it quickly became clear that it’s now mandatory.

What kind of questions should I ask the company that wants to replace our meters?

How should I persuade my neighbors to vote against it?

I have found various privacy arguments, but I suspect they won’t sway my neighbors because I don’t know anybody IRL who cares about privacy issues. If it means their water and electricity bills will be much lower (which I’m not convinced of), I don’t think their minds can be changed.

Even if that were true, I doubt the savings will be significant, and I personally suspect that it will be only for the first few months or at best the first year, but after that it will be as high as it currently is.

I also don’t like the fact that if we sign with the smart meter company, our contract is for 10 years, which is INSANE.

Please help.

I have read Privacy Guide’s article about selling surveillance as convenience, and I’m figuring out the steps that I can take, but it all comes down to persuading my neighbors it’s a bad idea. The vote will take place in presence of the smart meter company representatives.

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My community started installing smart water meters and it created a few issues. People were getting insanely high bills (as in 800-1000x higher than normal). This was found to be due to incorrectly identifying the pipe sizes for the cost calculation. I also have heard of a nightmare issue from a person who lived in home converted into individual units, sort of a mini complex. The wiring was backwards so they were paying for their neighbor’s electricity use, and the neighbor paying for their use. This went on for years and the person said they had been doing everything to conserve but their bills were very high. The electric company just kept telling them to conserve better and had someone check the wiring. Finally they were away and had turned off everything, but still got a big bill. Finally the electricity company saw the mix up and one unit owns back payment for many years of high bills the other unit has many years of credit.

The immediate things that come to me are wanting to know whether or not you will be able to see the meter reading on your own to be able to document your use in order to compare with the utility. I can read my water meter and determine how much I am using on a daily basis. This allows me to check for leaks (which I have already had) and compare my meter to the readings on my bill. Twice I have been overcharged because my old dial numbers were misread. A friend has a smart water meter and is unable to see the actual numerical amount. The smart readers have been presented as a means of more easily and accurately collecting meter readings, which can be the case, but I want to be able to verify and would ask about that first.

I would ask what other data is being collected and what is happening to that data. Are they going to be breaking down your water and electricity use by hour and then sell that on to data brokers to determine which times of day are going to be particularly effective for targeting you with ads or to help train AI systems?

Are they going to be storing this data? For how long? Is the data completely under their control, or have they outsourced storage to another entity who might misuse it? What guarantees are in place that they other entity is not going to use that data (even if they say they won’t)? What verification is in place that the data that is to be wiped actually is?

You might look We See It All by Jon Fasman for more ideas relevant to your situation. The book is a bit older but the overall information is still relevant though the details may have changed. It includes a chapter about the kinds of questions to ask and how to get involved when your community begins using surveillance tech.

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I don’t know much about the privacy invasive implications of smart meters, but I’m going to guess they’re like when you use Progressive Snapshot or some kind of device to let a car insurance company know how you drive.

They may offer you a discount for providing the data. They may tell you that it will give them a better idea of safe a driver you are. But in the end they want to monitor you more closely to see if they should be charging you more. They want you to snitch on yourself.

I could be wrong, but that’s the sense I get. If I’m right then you can use that line when organizing with your neighbors.

Besides that you can talk about the unnecessary risks that come with smart devices and how their service could be interrupted if something goes wrong. In this case I don’t know what those vulnerabilities are, but it could help. You can boil it down to the idea that not everything needs a computer in it. Not everything needs a wifi connection. If standard meters work just fine, don’t mess with it.

Just some arguments of the top of my head.

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@tallulah @InternetGhost Thank you both for taking the time to reply.

This is so interesting because smart meters are being marketed as a way to reduce your bills because you have a day-to-day picture of how much you use. As I said in my post, I am doubtful that the savings are that significant or that they would last long-term.

The errors you describe are alarming.

I remember watching a news report about a man in California who had insanely high utility bills and didn’t understand why. He did his best to use less energy, but his bills were still high. When he went away on holiday and saw that his will remained high, he knew something was up. It turns out that due to a mistake by the managing company, he was paying his and his neighbor’s utility bill. And he had been doing so for years. Years. He was owed back pay, but he never got it which is INSANE. I don’t know if he used a smart meter; he probably didn’t, but even so, these kinds of errors are expensive. There’s a chance you never get your money back, and in the rare cases that you might, it may take months for you to receive it.

SURVEILLANCE AS “CONVENIENCE”:

Yes, this is exactly is the selling point of smart meters. With analog meters, you get one reading every month or every quarter, depending on where you live, but it’s typically once a month. A smart meter takes readings every day. In fact, they can take readings every hour, every half hour, every 15 minutes, and even every 5 minutes. They collect a crap ton of data.

In one month, an analog meter does one reading. In the same amount of time, a smart reader has thousands of readings. That data can reveal a lot of about you and your lifestyle patters.

It can infer when you’re home or when you’re not based on your usage. This is useful information for burglars. It can also detect when and how often you use certain appliances. And since the utility company has access to that data, they can introduce surge / dynamic pricing based on your usage too. If they notice that lots of residents take a shower after work at 6pm, they can decide to charge you more during that time or limit your supply.

And of course there’s the fact that they could share that data with third parties for advertising, or the government.

I’m worried about all those things.

Yes, I plan to ask all these questions in hopes that my neighbors realize it’s a terrible idea. But I fear they will be hypnotized by the tech and the possibility of paying a little less, which is not a guarantee.

BILLING

Something I forgot to mention is that like a lot of IoT devices you can view your usage on their app or their website. You can also pay your bills via their app which personally, I’m not comfortable with. If you don’t pay via their app/website, they charge you more.

GOVERNMENT OWNED VS PRIVATELY OWNED UTILITY:

Another thing I wonder about is how the data is use when water and electricity are government owned vs privately owned. Even when it’s publicly owned, you may go through private companies to manage your utilities. I don’t want my data to be shared with the government.

Suppose there is an option to have a different meter, or to change the settings of one’s meter so that it only transmits data once a month. If all my neighbors have they meter set to hourly readings, the government and utility companies can charge me more base on the aggregate data of all my neighbors.

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I like how you have broken down topic. In reality, I don’t know that you would have much of a chance to block the implementation of smart meters, maybe just delay it.

While encouraging neighbors to join you in trying to stop the smart meters, I would be interested to know if it works. Convenience which is is a component of relief/entertainment/distraction seems to be the bigger priority for most people because they are so stretched already. But few look further at the costs and consequences. At stores with self check out, I refuse to use them and when encouraged to do so, happily say, “No thank you, I would rather an actual person have a job than being free labor for the company.” I am happily a Luddite in the accurate definition. In talking with your neighbors you may be able to approach them through the Luddite avenue, asking how many people will be out of a job.

I live in an area affected by ICE My area has had the government dump the water supply down the gutter but told people it helped fight fires–it did not and instead harmed the farmers since that was their water. ICE collecting workers right and left. Farmers can not get the crops managed because legal workers have been taken or they are too afraid to be seen regardless of their legal status. So the food supply is in jeopardy. After rounds of serious fires, housing has not been replaced and it is even slower without as many people to do the work. I see many intentions behind and consequences of this situation and the use of technology to replace people is one of them. You may trust your government, but it can change. In the future it may not be possible to live without the surveillance and active IoT due to the large scale events and personal choices we make now. To me it looks like returning to a corporate version of feudal societies but I doubt that position would sway many that like their convenience.

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Here’s a story of someone hacking a Smart Water Heater. It’s not too hard to imagine someone doing this with a smart meter (like disabling the water remotely):

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A DELAY IS STILL A WIN

To be clear, the government isn’t forcing my town to adopt smart meters. It’s optional, at least for now. The challenge of my current situation is that the decision doesn’t solely lie with me, but with all the residents living in my building. Hence, why I have to persuade my neighbors it’s a bad idea.

That said, based on what has happened in other countries, I think you are correct. Chances are, it will eventually become mandatory. However, if I can delay by years, that’s win I will take. Moreover, years can afford people the time to build a campaign and raise awareness about the privacy concerns of smart meters.

If what works? If I am able to persuade them? Sure, I’ll give an update. But right now, I am not confident they will be swayed.

CONVENIENCE CAN BE A TRAP

That’s the thing. I am not convinced the savings are significant, nor that they will last. I’ve been watching an episode of the BBC documentary show Panorama that was released last year, and was about smart meters. They interview various people who have been overcharged and were never refunded.

I’ve also seen negative reviews saying the same thing for the smart meter company that wants to install them in my building.

Surge / dynamic pricing, also allows the smart meter company to overcharge their users during peak hours, which is exactly what Uber does.

Exactly. I hope I can make them understand.

SELF-INTEREST > ALTRUISM

I knew the word luddite, but I just realized I remembered its definition wrong. I thought it described a newbie to technology or an activity. But it’s not that at all. :upside_down_face: I was completely unaware of the origins of the word, which I now just learned thanks to you, after looking it up on Wikipedia. :wink:

Yeah, I personally do not think this angle will work with my neighbors. It’s probably best to appeal to their self-interest.

SURVEILLANCE HARMS COMMUNITIES

I’ve been following what is going on in the US right now, and it’s horrible. It’s even more devastating that surveillance technology is being used to stigmatize, hunt, and imprison people without due process.

It’s also hypocritical, and I guess ironic, that the government goes out of its way to protect the identity of ice agents by making it a crime to identify them.

Have you heard of the app ICEBlock?

It’s an app that alerts people when ICE agents are nearby. You should check it out, it might be able to help your community.

People don’t appreciate this enough. That’s why we must keep fighting and raising awareness about these issues and keep defending right that have already been won, because we can lose them if we lower our guard.

Thanks again for your feedback.

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Thank you for those links. I’m a fan of Louis Rossmann. I wish there were more consumer activists like him in other countries. Not just activist but generally, I wish there were non-English privacy communities across the world with journalists, activists, and forums, and media outlets dedicated to these issues. People don’t realize that privacy intersects with consumer rights issues, as IoTs massively contribute to the erosion of ownership.

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I understand the concern with smart thermostats but I’m not sure what the concern is for smart meters.

The utility companies get the same information whether they send someone to look at a physical meter or if that data is sent automatically via a smart meter.

What is the difference from a privacy perspective?

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It seems like you didn’t read my comments. I refer you to the part: SURVEILLANCE AS “CONVENIENCE”.

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I really don’t see a privacy issue here other than the power and water companies knowing when you are home (based on consumption).

The biggest benefit for the company is the meters can be read remotely so they can layoff employees. Maybe protecting jobs could convince your neighbours?

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I read that already and it lists lots of concerns about things that don’t really seem to be about privacy (like time of use pricing for electricity).

Again what is the privacy concern about smart meters?

The only data that could be different is knowing when you’re home or not. Is that your concern?

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If it is electronic data about my use, then it can be sold (since profiting off my utility use is not enough), hacked, and used against me to rob me or for personalized time of use pricing similar to the potential of Kroger and its smart shelves.

Have you heard of crime tourism? Double digit numbers of homes have been robbed within a walking/cycling distance of mine. The locations were chosen based on particular criteria, some of which included knowing when the occupants would be gone for enough time to allow the tourists to have time to rob the place and just hang out for a hour or two going through the people’s stuff. So what if a power and water company knows when I am home right?

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I am interested to hear how receptive and supportive your neighbors end up being to whatever you present to them-if your arguments work to convince them to be opposed to smart meters.

I have heard about ICEblock. I like it in theory but I have my concerns.

Another thing just came to mind due to your ICE related comment. The smart meter information may be used to track how many people are actually in the residence. Changes in usage patterns can be recognized more readily. One protest sign I saw stated something to the extent that they were protesting because it was easier than hiding people in their attic. The kinds of granular data collected on usage combined with information known about demographics I can see being used to identify where people may be hiding which could be turned over to whatever agency that might benefit from having that information.

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Yes, having the ability to know when I am home or not is a concern. That information can be used to rob me.

Your data being shared with third parties, which can include businesses, law enforcement, and apparently debt collectors in the case of Australia.

I don’t know about you, but I have personally witnessed landlords and debt collectors trying to get into someone’s home and ascertain if anyone was there.

Also, this:

WIKIPEDIA: Used as evidence in a court case in Austin, Texas, police agencies secretly collected smart meter power usage data from thousands of residences to determine which used more power than “typical” to identify marijuana growing operations (source: Austin Chronicle).

And this:

I have a friend who lives in France. She invited her cousin from Vietnam to come visit her in Paris. Her cousin had to apply for a visa. When you apply for a visa for any country, you have to prove that you have the means to stay there. If you are going to stay at someone’s house instead of a hotel, your host has to send you an invitation to include in your application.

However, in France, and various EU countries, the host has to prove that they can accommodate their guest. Not just by proving you have a job and earn enough, but that your home is suitable for the guest. Meaning that if you live in a one bedroom studio apartment, and you plan to have your guest sleep in the living room on the couch, your government, in this case France, can determine that you don’t have the means to host your cousin and deny her visa, which is unfair and ridiculous.

Moreover, suppose that you live with your boyfriend in your small studio apartment, and that your sister is living with you for a couple of months, sleeping on the couch in the living room. You still plan to host your cousin from Vietnam, and she has no issue sharing a sofa bed in the living room with your sister, because they know each other and are also cousins.

The government could use your smart meter data to infer based on your usage that there are 3 people living in a 1 bedroom studio apartment, and based on that decide that you are not able to host your cousin, and deny her her visa. That, IMO, is disgusting.

You underestimate what your smart meter data can reveal about you.

PRIVACY INTERNATIONAL: Patterns generated by smart meter data can be used to infer how many individuals reside in a home as well as their activities, habits, and rhythms of movement, including when they leave their home and when they go to sleep. Smart meter data can even reveal which appliances are functioning at a given time, allowing one to infer, for example, when residents consume meals, take showers, watch TV, and use exercise equipment.

I also don’t want to be overcharged because of dynamic pricing, which is what is happening in Australia:

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I will definitely let you know how it goes.

What are your issues with it? I’m guessing they are privacy issues?

Exactly. This is another concern. In my previous comment about France, I explained how that can potentially be weaponized against you and your loved ones.

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Thank you for the detailed and thorough reply. I totally understand your concern now.

If trying to convince your neighbors to oppose this then the best way may be to be focus on a specific aspect or two of this, perhaps the fear of being robbed for those concerned with crime and the dynamic pricing potential for those concerned about their wallets.

Persuasion campaigns are usually more effective if they can be made simple and spreadable at the “sound bite” or bumper sticker size.

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Yes, I agree. I also have to recognize that people are often not swayed by the same arguments. I have to figure out which arguments is strongest to compel most people and find the 2nd and 3rd strongest which may compel others. For some people, if the smart meter app and website are too complicated to use, that could be enough. But I suspect these people are in the minority. Still, it’s something to consider.

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An excellent point. Much appreciated.

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Timely, from ARS Technica
A power utility is reporting suspected pot growers to cops. EFF says that’s illegal.

This article provides real world examples of how smart meters are an invasion of privacy.

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